Commons:Village pump/Archive/2009/10

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Removing work from Wikimedia

I have uploaded a couple of images to Wikimedia but have now decided I want to permanently remove them. How do I do this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bubblecar (talk • contribs) 17. September 2009, 22:58 Uhr (UTC)

Lol (sorry), thats the shortes Wikimedia career I ever saw ;) You can neither delete your account nor the images you contributed under irrevocable free licenses. --Martin H. (talk) 21:01, 17 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Of course, the image tagged as "missing a source" may be deleted anyway if you don't provide evidence that it is free of rights. --Eusebius (talk) 21:05, 17 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Do what you like, but I won't be uploading any more images. Far too anti-user. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bubblecar (talk • contribs) 17. September 2009, 23:12 Uhr (UTC)

Colleagues, Bubblecar (talk · contribs) looks clearly like a troll to me, who has succeeded in starting four threads (see above). Don't feed him anymore. --Túrelio (talk) 21:34, 17 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No, I'm an artist and luthier who has contributed a couple of images (and intended to contribute more), but experienced a good deal of trauma in trying to do so, because of the non-intuitive nature of the upload interface. And one of the images won't be accepted because of material that is apparently copyrighted elsewhere, but I can't work out how to re-submit the modified version which doesn't include this material.

You people really need to consider that many of your contributors are creative individuals who have decided to make unique and interesting images freely available to the global public, but who are not much helped in this aim by the software here. And when we're called "trolls" this really does make the Wikimedia project look half-baked and unwelcoming indeed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bubblecar (talk • contribs) 23:53, 17. Sep. 2009 (UTC)

Hi Bubblecar, I understand your concerns (and do not believe you are a troll). The problem is that the matter itself, especially licencing, is very complicated, if we would simplify this any further it would become illegal. All this fuss is about protecting the rights of artists like you are. Sorry for that.
But I do believe that you probably have some very valuable images to add. If you have trouble uploading, we are willing to assist you. Or, if you don't mind, you can send your images to other users, e.g. me, accompanied by a descriptiion and a confirmation that you release all rigths, and I will upload them for you, provided they are indeed valuable. -- H005 (talk) 22:15, 17 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

My apologies to everyone. I was drunk and obnoxious, and deserved the troll call.— Preceding unsigned comment added by ? (talk • contribs) ? (UTC)

If you dislike the interface here, you may upload your pictures to [ Flickr] with a Creative Commons CC-BY-SA license and then ask someone (for example at Commons:Help Desk) to move them from there to here. Teofilo (talk) 11:50, 25 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
And there is also the problem of a bug in the upload interface this past week. Some things still do not work - very frustrating, aspecially for new users. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 12:01, 25 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ok; this exchange is a perfectly lovely text-book example of what we are doing wrong @ wmc:

here we have a photographer; (as of this writing) their lone surviving contribution to wmc demonstrates professional-level skills & interesting, highly useful subject-matter.

Rebec fiddle. A medieval and Renaissance bowed instrument, one of the precursors of the violin. This reconstruction of a rebec was made by Nikolas Zalotockyj. Photo by User:Bubblecar

this person wants/wanted to contribute; to upload & share their work @ wmc.

they uploaded some stuff & found (big surprise) that the media-wiki software is clunky-as-hell, awkward to use, & that it pretty much takes advanced-level user skills to do anything beyond extremely basic tasks like uploading & categorizing a file (& even those functions aren't particularly user-friendly).

this person perseveres, & finally comes on here (commons:village pump), asking for help.

the first couple of help comments they get are rather unhelpful (i'm sorry, but it's true)

then, the user gets called a "troll"; a hostile, & completely baseless claim. how exactly is name-calling meant to be helpful/useful on here anyway, & when!? ( ...back where i come from, we have this thing called "wiki-ettiqette").

so now, we have pretty much lost this artist for wikimedia.

great job guys, high 5's all around!!!


this conversation should be preserved as an example of how to collectively screw things up, & drive off a noob user with concentrated community-hostility.

i'm willing to believe that at least some of the people involved were acting in good conscience, but either way, the result is the same...

2 obvious points:

1. we need to actively apologize to this user, & try to get them back (& help them with uploading their work!).

2. we need to try & stop this kind of collective-effort-screw-up from happening!

if bubblecar is still bothering to read this thread:

i abjectly apologize on behalf of my fellow-wikimedians; sometimes this can be a hostile & uncouth tribe, but there are people on here who want to encourage new creative talent, & actually help fellow-users with their problems. i'm one of them, please feel free to contact me, anytime, if you need help/want to continue @ wmc. my main focus is on wikipedia/english, but i do work with other artists; recruiting them, helping them to upload their work, & getting it placed on wikipedia articles, as merited

i very much like your fiddle picture, & hope you will choose to upload further works.

Lx 121 (talk) 10:08, 1 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Interwiki links for File: pages

Following this edit by User:Mattes at File:Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Don Giovanni - Overtüre.ogg, I had a discussion with that user about the usefulness of Interwiki links for File: pages on my talk page. In short, I think File: pages should never have Interwiki links (the kind that appear in the left sidebar), Mattes thinks they provide information as to the file's usage on other language Wikipedias. We are not making much progress in resolving our diverging points of view; is there a better forum for discussing such matters with a broader input from other editors? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 00:35, 28 September 2009 (UTC) Reply[reply]

That might work, but let's see people with more experience in that type of area think.Mitch32(Want help? See here!) 02:02, 28 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I don't quite understand: what might work?
My intent in bringing this here is 1) either to be directed to an appropriate forum where this can be discussed (Commons:Image pages or Commons:Guide to layout … ?), or 2) to discuss it here. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:20, 28 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
In the past we had discussions on wisdom of adding interwiki links to images and the consensus was that it is not a good idea. Someone might upload dozen of other files related to this work and if we add similar links to all of them we will end up with many-to-one configuration of interwiki links. That is bad because it is not clear what the interwiki link from wikipedia to Commons should link to. Interwiki links should be only used at the category/gallery level. In case of this file I would add it to a one-file category and add links there. --Jarekt (talk) 04:18, 28 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Actually, these interwiki links are to the *file page itself* on the various language wikis. In other words, they are links to itself, though showing the view from the local wikis. Sort of like the "en" tab at the top of the page. I can't see too much of a purpose, except it may show the page with a different default language (not worth it in my opinion), and it also makes a quick way to see what usage there is on a particular wiki. At first blush they seem ridiculous, but then again we do have a link to the en-wiki in the tab bar for every image, so if there is a reason for that maybe there is a reason to link to other wikis. Dunno. Carl Lindberg (talk) 05:05, 28 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We don’t have link to en, we have a link going to your “home” wiki, I have a link to cs, for instance. That has a tiny bit of usefulness, but having 272 interwiki links at each image…? Why? To check where is the file used, see CheckUsage. I agree that the interwiki links are a bad idea. --Mormegil (talk) 11:15, 28 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I once added some when copying images from one wiki to another wiki. This was before using commons though.
If an image is on commons, generally there aren't any file description pages in the other wikis. So linking there would link to a nonexistent page. This can't be of much use. BTW there is a link "check usage" on commons file description pages that lists all uses of an image.
Within a description, it can be helpful to link some of the words to articles in the corresponding wikipedia, but this isn't the question here. -- User:Docu at 10:08, 28 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@ “If an image is on commons, generally there aren't any file description pages in the other wikis. So linking there would link to a nonexistent page. This can't be of much use.” -- Yes and no. The main reason is to see “OK this file is used there, there and there”. Yes, there is no further description. No, that isn't useless because one gets the links in a particular Wikimedia project. BTW: Where do we get a valid solution for this matter (not in a discussion but rather in a query I guess ...)? We don't need to put this topic in n discussions over and over, and furthermore on n pages. A policy or similar needs to be set up here. --Mattes (talk) 10:43, 1 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Writing guideline/policy

It seems there is consensus that Interwiki links on File: pages are not a good idea, or even verboten. How and where is this going to be documented? I'm not very experienced in this, but I suggest to add this passage to Commons:Guide to layout#File description pages and Commons:Image pages#Interwiki links (new section):

"In-line Interwiki links –those which are preceded by a colon ( : )– for terms used in the description of a file are encouraged. On the other hand, File: pages must not have Interwiki links of the kind that appear in the left sidebar as they would link to non-existing pages.

Example – good

… a composition by [[:w:en:Tekla Bądarzewska-Baranowska|Tekla Bądarzewska-Baranowska]] … Green tick.svg

Example – bad

[[en:File:Georges Bizet - Rosabel Morrison - Carmen poster.png]] Red x.svg
[[fr:File:Georges Bizet - Rosabel Morrison - Carmen poster.png]]
Red x.svg

I'm open for better suggestions. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 07:24, 30 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Transfering an image from Wikipedia

Just need someone to make sure that I haven't made a pig's ear of things. :) I've just transfered en:File:WikiProject Korea.PNG to File:WikiProject Korea.png. I excluded this revision because it appears to have been uploaded in error (was reverted by author and reuploaded at en:File:WikiProject Korea Military history project.PNG) as well as the most recent revision which I have uploaded here seperately at File:WikiProject Korea (new).png. Is this OK? PC78 (talk) 01:11, 1 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Seems no problem as long as you correctly states the photographer, and license status, and original file name. By the way, I'm inviting you to Commons:Categories for discussion/2009/10/Category:Gyeongbok Palace (you know the reason why per en:Talk:Gyeongbokgung#Move request.--Caspian blue 01:18, 1 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Volunteers still needed

Hi all,
Although we soon will remove the centralnotice that is up, the Wikimedia Foundation is still looking for volunteers to serve as subject area experts or to sit on task forces that will study particular areas and make recommendations to the Foundation about its strategic plan. You may apply to serve on a task force or register your name as an expert in a specific area at

The Foundation's strategy project is a year-long collaborative process which is hosted on the strategy wiki, at Your input is welcome (and greatly desired) there. When the task forces begin to meet, they will do their work transparently and on that wiki, and any member of the community may join fully in their work. This process is specifically designed to involve as many community members as possible.

Any questions can be addressed to me either on my talk page here or on the strategy wiki or by email to philippe at

I hope you'll consider joining us!

Philippe (talk) 02:00, 1 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

location dec

I try to use the {{location dec}}-thing (I don't know what a sjabloon is in english), but using the search function I only find images of other people who didn't seem to get it working either. Where shall I look for more information, and how can this be made clearer and easyer to encourage uploaders to add location information. KKoolstra (talk) 07:34, 1 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

In english it is called a template, so documentation is at template:Location dec. This is a working example: {{Location dec|59.858232|17.633442|}}. It was generated automatically from metadata by the Flinfo tool when I uploaded a file from Flickr. Very friendly. Regards, /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 07:40, 1 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I fixed the bunch of faulty {{Location dec}} calls mentioned by User:KKoolstra. Two common faults were wrong type of or missing {{ }} brackets, and the inclusion of compass directions N,E, S, W etc when it just wants two numbers. --Tony Wills (talk) 09:28, 1 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Also, consider using the Geolocator tool as suggested in Commons:Geocoding (it's just point, click, copy and paste). Now, perhaps, it just needs some more visibility (a direct link to Geolocator in the upload form wouldn't be bad, IMHO). --Ianezz (talk) 17:25, 1 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The remainder of the July 2009 upload problems

Most of the files uploaded in July are now OK, but please tell if you can download the full size versions of:

I don't know if they are easy to recover, and if it is worth writing a bug on bugzilla only for these 9. Of course I have not checked the whole month of July, but I can hardly find more.

Teofilo (talk) 16:36, 1 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There is also

available for full size download, but no thumbnails. Teofilo (talk) 16:41, 1 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

In-article attribution requirement

Please forgive me if this has been addressed before.
When I was preparing to place File:Jens Stoltenberg 2007 04 18.jpg on the English Wikipedia's main page, I noticed that it was tagged with Template:Harry, which includes (in part) the following text:

Attribution: All usage must display the phrase "Photo: Harry Wad" in the immediate vicinity of the image. The word photo may be translated. This requirement also applies to any articles in Wikimedia projects using this image.

Is such a requirement enforceable? The English Wikipedia's article doesn't appear to comply, and I think that it would be preferable to use one of the other available images of Jens Stoltenberg (as I did on the English Wikipedia's main page) than to add "Photo: Harry Wad" to the article. —David Levy 11:49, 17 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There have been discussions about that in general, though - if I remember right - most photo contributors, who are interested in this topic at all and who prefer a "near-the-photo-credit" wouldn't demand that for Wikimedia projects, because here the full credit is only 1 click away. As to my knowledge, only :no-Wikipedia has enabled crediting in the image caption (for an example, see here). So, if we take this photographers demand seriously, then File:Jens Stoltenberg 2007 04 18.jpg is used "wrongly" on 30 Wikimedia projects. --Túrelio (talk) 12:19, 17 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Also see no:Hovedside, where the image currently appears in non-compliance with this condition. —David Levy 14:28, 17 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's certainly enforceable, although it is debatable whether it (a) conflicts with the CC-BY license, or (b) remains compatible with Commons. Stifle (talk) 13:30, 17 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yeah, that's what I'm wondering. A copyright holder is entitled to place any number of arbitrary restrictions on his/her works' use, but I'm not accustomed to seeing such a condition attached to an image available under a free (by our standards) license. —David Levy 13:38, 17 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I took the opportunity to add "Photo: Harry Wad" to the English Wikipedia uses, and used {{byline|Photo: Harry Wad|2007}} for two of the captions. -84user (talk)
Hmm, though surely well-meant, that may create a precedent. IMHO it would be more appropriate to open a local discussion (i.e. on :en) about that. --Túrelio (talk) 14:38, 17 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
For the time being, I've replaced the English Wikipedia's uses with File:Jens Stoltenberg.jpg, which has no such requirement. —David Levy 17:29, 17 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

As In-article attribution isn't yet accepted on :de, I've put notes on the talkpages of the two articles using the Stoltenberg photo. --Túrelio (talk) 15:04, 17 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Well, it's like fair use, it's up to the local projects to decide whether they accept it or not. Diti the penguin 16:25, 17 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
My take on this is: this demand appears to be a common confusion which I think comes from reading copyright notices on websites. These are written up by some arty-farty wordsmith, who has simply copied it from another website, rather than added by a lawyer (to get a lawyer, to write anything at all, costs lots more money and the result is usually totally incomprehensible). Legally the copyright owner can demand anything he wants; that is the whole purpose of Copyright – it allows the rightful owner control over publication. From a practical point of view, this particular stipulation is unwise, and perhaps therefore Harry might consider rewording it. And again on Template:Harry2 & Template:Harry3.
The CC licence only says:
* If the work itself contains any copyright notices placed there by the copyright holder, you must leave those notices in tact, or reproduce them in a way that is reasonable to the medium in which you are re-publishing the work. How do I properly attribute a Creative Commons licensed work? added emphasis mine.
The reason to alter it, is that: to demand how and where ones credit goes, is to interfere with the “ would be” publisher’s typography or page layout. Something that a publisher would not tolerate on principle. Otherwise, famous or important photographers would start demanding all sorts of unreasonable attribution prominence. Some images ( in say a book) might have all the credits placed in one place at (say) the start of the book or perhaps in an appendix at the back. Many websites now have click through credits (CNN springs to mind). Copyright owners need to be flexible for these reasons. Shall we post him a note on his WP talk page? He probable hasn't thought it through. --P.g.champion (talk) 16:31, 17 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • The license is clear: "Attribution — You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor (but not in any way that suggests that they endorse you or your use of the work)." But I remove the specified requirement/reminder for Wikipedia in the template. --Harry Wad (talk) 19:20, 17 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Anyway, I hope that people will use byline if possible on Wikipedia to. On No.wp we use byline if the photographer's name is known, even if he does not require it. Such is considered good manners :-)--Harry Wad (talk) 19:29, 17 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
In my opinion, this restriction conflicts with the license text of CC-BY-2.5. Also, it's too strict for Commons. Therefore all images with this extra restriction should be removed. As a sidenote, I do not think that Wikipedia should be forced to include an attribution in the main article text. Should we add an attribution to each paragraph, or even each sentence as well? Or maybe display the list of authors on a sidebar? The name of the photographer is of no interest for the average reader and should not deface articles. --Sebari (talk) 19:42, 17 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Wikipedia hosts texts written by a large proportion of persons. It is logical that we must keep an history for this purpose. On the contrary, photographs are almost exclusively made by only one person; they also have generally not the same license as the text, something that should be clear for the reader, who is also likely to be a reuser. And no, it is not too strict for Commons, an image credit is an attribution, not an additional part of a license, and has nothing to do with freedom, but copyright. Should I mention there is still a copyright on any free file (except works that are released under Public Domain)? My opinion is that reusers (and it includes Wikipedia) should themselves follow the CC license terms, that say “you must leave those notices in tact, or reproduce them in a way that is reasonable to the medium in which you are re-publishing the work”: you cannot, for obvious reasons, properly include a link to the license on a printed support, so you have to adapt it. Oh well, you sure can remove the files that require such attributions, but people will post them on other websites anyway. Why deleting the good work? Diti the penguin 20:06, 17 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Please see my response below. Setting aside the legal and philosophical issues, hosting these images is far too burdensome (given the added work and confusion involved) to be considered a net gain to the Wikimedia Foundation and those who benefit from the content that it distributes. —David Levy 20:32, 17 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Specifying where to put the attribution is an additional restriction that is not covered CC-BY-2.5. Therefore the images in question are not covered by CC and are not eligible for Commons. David explains some of the practical problems with this additional restriction well. Also, Wikipedia articles are collaborate works, usually by many contributors. These include writers, photographers, authors of diagrams, reviewers, and editors. Usually photos are used as part of the whole (like texts), and there is no reason to single out their contributors in an article. --Sebari (talk) 20:42, 17 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I agree that the condition is too burdensome for Commons or any other Wikimedia project. Even if the practice of including in-article attributions were universally regarded as acceptable, editors and content republishers are entirely unaccustomed to it, so most won't even think to check whether the requirement exists.
Given that the vast majority of free images lack such a restriction, it's far more practical to simply prohibit it (by requesting its removal and deleting the images whose owners decline) than to demand that editors check every image to ensure that its license terms have been met (a chore likely to fall to the small percentage of users aware of the issue).
I also agree that the actual practice (whether mandatory or optional) is inconsistent with our projects' collaborative philosophy (and therefore highly undesirable). —David Levy 20:32, 17 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi Harry,
The problem may lay with understanding ‘who’ the manner belongs to. YOU own the manner of the form that the credit takes, the PUBLISHER owns the manner of how and where he displays it. This reads like the rantings of the chef on Muppet's to me but maybe it makes more sense to you. Navngivelse-DelPåSammeVilkår 3.0 Norge. Then please read my last post again.--P.g.champion (talk) 20:02, 17 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • I end my participation in this discussion, if any, like to delete my photos or threaten to, please be my gest. But make sure it is in line with the guidelines on Commons. I do not like bickering, send an email if there is anything you want me --Harry Wad (talk) 20:48, 17 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I am more concerned by the 'offensive words' provision. A license is basically a document saying "I own the copyright in this work, but I promise that I will not bring an action for copyright infringement if you to use the work according to these rules". In this case, if our use of this contributor's image was accompanied by "words that can be considered offensive", then it would be an infringement. However, "can be considered offensive" is a very broad phrase, as anything could conceivably be considered offensive to somebody, under the right conditions. The copyright owner could point to any word and correctly say that it could be considered offensive by someone, under some circumstance. In short, the license is no license at all, and the promise is illusory. BD2412 T 16:54, 20 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • This requirement is quite understandable, as we see that the Wikimedia projects are increasing their pressure to deny authors their right to be recognized for their works in a normal way, including the You agree to be credited, at minimum, through a hyperlink or URL when your contributions are reused in any form on edit pages, and the extremely harmful pdf book tool implemented on many Wikipedia projects. Teofilo (talk) 11:37, 25 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    • I missed the "could be considered offensive" bit, BD2412, and would agree that this voids the license so far as Commons is concerned and all images with {{Harry}} must be deleted. Stifle (talk) 08:32, 2 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Collect remaining current problems?

It's come to my attention that Commons has had some more problems than we saw on the other wikis... I want to make sure we get that cleaned up!

Andrew has just deployed some more fixes which should eliminate the 'file already exists on Commons' bug. Can folks go through the lists above and collect just the problems that are still current down here so we can make sure we finish them up?

  • Yes check.svg ResolvedCommonist fixed in r56793 trunk/r56794 branch
    Uploads via Commonist -- fixed or do we still have problems?
    • (Who's the best person to contact about debugging or developing fixes for Commonist?)
  • Missing description page immediately after edit -- is this still happening?
  • Anything else?

--brion (talk) 21:57, 21 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi! Tonight still did not work for me. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 22:00, 21 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hey brion, on Friday or Saturday I was going through and deleting images that were missing sources, license, and/or permission, and I came across an issue several times where the software said there was no image uploaded for that filename, but the upload logs showed that an image was indeed uploaded, and I could see it in the deleted revisions (once I deleted it, of course). That happened on several files that I was dealing with on that day. I'm not sure if it's an issue anymore, but I just wanted to let you know. Killiondude (talk) 00:54, 22 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Magnus's CommonsHelper still doesn't work, too. --BokicaK (talk) 04:10, 22 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Reported working after the fix for Commonist went in. --brion (talk) 00:07, 23 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I don't know if this is a bug with ogv or something else, but I can't upload File:Lilik - Il copyright sulla cultura - video Noè.ogv (19.1 MB). I tried removing the Unicode character but nothing: when the upload seems completed I only get a blank page. I'm using Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv: Gecko/20090910 Ubuntu/9.04 (jaunty) Shiretoko/3.5.3.

|Description={{it|1=''Il copyright sulla cultura'', documentario per spiegare il diritto d'autore e la sua evoluzione al pubblico medio. Con aggiunta di immagini libere.}}
|Source=[]  [] []
|Author=Lilik, Franco Noè
|other_versions=[[:File:Lilik - Il_copyright_sulla_cultura.ogg]]

[[Category:Copyright law]]

--Nemo 11:37, 22 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Thanks a lot, brion. Sadly, the version update did not fix the Commonist problem. Commonist is still non-functional (for me at least), still with the dreaded error "UnexpectedAnswerException unexpected response data (UiSimpleActionBase) status HTTP/1.0 200 OK". I don't know who to contact but the e-mail address given here. --AndreasPraefcke (talk) 13:04, 22 September 2009 (UTC) PS: By the way, Commonist is a useful tools, but it's far from perfect. I think some better tool for mass uploading to the Commons would be great to have , or ar least something like Flickr's multi-file upload. Actually, I think it is a crucial problem for the further development of the Commons that all methods of uploading are as tiresome and as they are.Reply[reply]

When I try to click the "Open upload form" link from the Flinfo tool, I get the following error:

Request: GET

Error: ERR_ACCESS_DENIED, errno [No Error] at Tue, 22 Sep 2009 15:39:25 GMT

Kaldari (talk) 15:42, 22 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

To fix Commonist (in commonist-0.3.41/lib/mwapi-src/src/net/psammead/mwapi/ui/action) needs to be fixed to include wpEditToken like I did here for pywikipedia. Multichill (talk) 16:48, 22 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Since the edit token isn't actually needed to enforce CSRF protection on web file uploads, I've relaxed the check unless a token is actually passed or we're doing a non-file upload. (eg upload via URL). I can confirm that this fixes Commonist; probably it fixes a lot of the other broken upload tools as well. --brion (talk) 23:48, 22 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Rotatebot went down too (Category:Images requiring rotation starts filling up). I left a note for Luxo. -- User:Docu at 17:14, 22 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Flickr2Commons is still broken for me. Ultra7 (talk) 20:50, 22 September 2009 (UTC) And Geograph2Commons wasn't working yesterday. Ultra7 (talk) 20:54, 22 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

bugzilla:20736 is a remaining problem with MW's/Commons' integration with the "Firefogg" extension (or so I hypothesise, can test more thoroughly tomorrow). Jarry1250 (talk) 21:02, 22 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm on IE. Ultra7 (talk) 21:22, 22 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm pointing Michael Dale at that one, as he's responsible for the firefogg integration code. --brion (talk) 22:21, 22 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

And does not work either. These problems have been going on for a week now. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 08:15, 23 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • I still have the problem described above. --Nemo 12:56, 25 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Flickr2Commons still doesn't work. It's a shame because we just missed out on a shed load of images of the Sttaffordhire hoard due to a license change. Had it been working at the time I would have uploaded 20 at least. Now we only have 2. Ultra7 (talk) 14:12, 25 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • File upload service/Script, which several uploading bots are based on (mine included), doesn't seem to work anymore. This is preventing me from uploading about 3,000 images for Wikipedia Loves Art as well as about 150 images from the US State Department. Any help fixing the script would be appreciated. Thanks. Kaldari (talk) 23:04, 1 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    • Fixed by setting wpDestFile to the UTF-8 encoded filename. Kaldari (talk) 18:18, 2 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • One file moved today doesn't seem to have a working redirect in one Wikipedia
(en:File:Swiss_National_Council_Session_Spectators.jpg redirects, but fr:File:Swiss_National_Council_Session_Spectators.jpg doesn't).
For another file moved today both work: en:File:Fotothek_df_ps_0003830_x.jpg and fr:File:Fotothek_df_ps_0003830_x.jpg. An earlier one I checked was ok too.
We found this one when checking the first file that wasn't replaced by CommonsDelinker everywhere. -- User:
  • ✓ Done disappeared or was solved in the meantime -- User:Docu at 07:30, 2 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

September 22

French copyrights and images of modern buildings

A user told me that Category:Tour_Montparnasse and Category:La Défense have images of modern French buildings. In France, freedom of panorama does not exist (see Commons:Freedom_of_panorama#France. Also from discussions on the French and English Wikipedias, I learned that images of recently built French buildings get a copyright from the architect who designed the building. Does this mean the images in these pages need to be removed? WhisperToMe (talk) 22:09, 28 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There is an open DR here: Commons:Deletion requests/Images of Grande Arche. Copyright protection is even claimed for bridges, see Commons:Deletion requests/File:Millau-Viaduct-France-20070909.jpg and Commons:Deletion requests/File:Viaduc de Millau-traversée.jpg. Luckily, Van Gogh could paint before all this. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 07:02, 29 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks! I have begun nominating deletion requests for some French buildings. WhisperToMe (talk) 17:33, 29 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
On French WP, there is a special category for these images : fr:Catégorie:Image d'œuvre architecturale récente en fair use. Before any deletion, uploading them in this category would be smart. Thanks a lot. --Croquant (talk) 10:16, 2 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

September 29

Procedural question

Hi, I have a question about procedures. I try to be very diligent about following all the Commons rules for images (now that I understand them). But I have a fellow in Yorkshire who has agreed to let me use one of his images from Flickr. However, he doesn't understand the need to change the copyright on the image, which right now just carries the full copyright on it. He asked if there is a way to leave his tag on the image, but for me to still be able to use it. I told him it might be possible to use OTC and have him write a letter to Commons giving his express permission to use the image in this one instance. However, I don't know the correct procedure on this, or whether that is indeed permissible. Would really appreciate some guidance. Thank you! MarmadukePercy (talk) 19:55, 1 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I have no idea what you mean with the "OTC" acronym, but I think you should read Commons:OTRS, where you will find information on how to write permission E-mails. If you have further questions, you may ask the people at Commons:OTRS/Noticeboard. Teofilo (talk) 20:19, 1 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The easiest thing for your friend to do, would be to use the email template at Commons:Email templates and send that to OTRS. Killiondude (talk) 20:32, 1 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Okay, thanks. Sorry, I meant OTRS and had my mind elsewhere. I will go that route, which I've used before for photos not on Flickr. Thanks.MarmadukePercy (talk) 20:36, 1 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Anyone can insert the page Template:No license/pt-br in Template:No license/lang?}} — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard Melo da Silva (talk • contribs)

✓ Done, the right place to ask is the talkpage of the template Template:No license/lang using {{Editprotected}} if the page is protected. --Martin H. (talk) 22:41, 1 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

File upload service/Script broken

Commons:File upload service/Script seems to no longer work since the recent API update. Since several File Upload bots are based on this script, it would be awesome if someone could figure out how to fix it. I have about ~3500 files personally that I can't upload until this is solved (from various museums and the US State Department). Kaldari (talk) 23:31, 1 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

That's what you get from running an obsolete unsuported script. wpDestFile is not set. It should contain the new filename (UTF-8 encoded). Multichill (talk) 15:47, 2 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks. That fixed it. Kaldari (talk) 18:18, 2 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

October 2

Volunteers still needed

Hi all,
Although we soon will remove the centralnotice that is up, the Wikimedia Foundation is still looking for volunteers to serve as subject area experts or to sit on task forces that will study particular areas and make recommendations to the Foundation about its strategic plan. You may apply to serve on a task force or register your name as an expert in a specific area at

The Foundation's strategy project is a year-long collaborative process which is hosted on the strategy wiki, at Your input is welcome (and greatly desired) there. When the task forces begin to meet, they will do their work transparently and on that wiki, and any member of the community may join fully in their work. This process is specifically designed to involve as many community members as possible.

Any questions can be addressed to me either on my talk page here or on the strategy wiki or by email to philippe at

I hope you'll consider joining us!

Philippe (talk) 03:16, 2 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Category broken

I have uploaded this image and i have found a tool with which i can create automatically categories. But i want to add a new category which is only a red link category. What is done wrong. I have tried it several times to find a correect term!--A.Hakansson (talk) 12:44, 2 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Apparently someone fixed it for you already. –Tryphon 12:58, 2 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Finally an answer i was waiting for. Where can you see that somebody already has changed it? What do you think of that image? Is it in good categories? Or is it in order if i add more?
If the category was removed or changed, like here, you can see it in the "history" of the file description page, click the history tab. If the category is now blue it was created in the meantime and you can see in the history of the category page who created the category. Regarding categorization: The image was over categorized at that moment (do not edit, old revision!). Category:People's Liberation Army is a subcategory of China and Military. At the meantime this is also fixed, see the description page history. --Martin H. (talk) 13:27, 2 October 2009 (UTC) p.s.: Maybe some expert want to add a category for the vehicle, you may add the file to Category:Tanks (if it is a tank, I dont know). --Martin H. (talk) 13:31, 2 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hello, thank you for helping and giving me this info. Now i know what the categorization means. I think it is a tank, but i do definately not know. I am not interested in military. I only liked the contrast: chinese tank and a gucci store. That is quite curious and a rare composition. In addition, the PRC of our time and its history beefs this image up, too. Equal, thank you for your support. If this image is not appreciated, i can delete it. By the way one question: How can i delete images?--A.Hakansson (talk) 13:51, 2 October 2009 (UTC)--A.Hakansson (talk) 13:51, 2 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Reading your next to last sentence I already thought to myself: No, you can not delete, you can only request deletion following Commons:Deletion policy#Detailed guildlines. But the image is great and free and uploaded with good description and source, so no reason for deletion. Your posting here attracted some editing, please dont feel surprised by the categorization and edits others do to the image. --Martin H. (talk) 14:00, 2 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]


I've reverted File:Flag of Belgium.svg to an earlier version, per the official source. I need now, however, to create File:Flag of Belgium (state).svg, with the earlier image, but I have no idea how to create SVGs. (The source code would be something like: "− <svg width="450" height="390"> <rect id="black" width="150" height="390" x="0" y="0" fill="#000"/> <rect id="yellow" width="150" height="390" x="150" y="0" fill="#ffda0c"/> <rect id="red" width="150" height="390" x="300" y="0" fill="#f31830"/> </svg>"

Or like

<svg xmlns="" version="1.1"
  xmlns:xlink="" width="450" height="390">
 <rect width="150" height="390" />
 <rect x="150" width="150" height="390" fill="#ffde00" />
 <rect x="300" width="150" height="390" fill="#f00" />

If anyone can help me/create this file, that would be much appreciated. Thanks!! Oreo Priest (talk) 14:43, 2 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

✓ Done. You simply needed to put the above code in a text file, and upload it. –Tryphon 15:13, 2 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

please help with image description

I have uploaded a image using commons helper but the automatically generated text is all wrong i tried to manually fix it but it just got worse the image is File:Binary_executable_file2.png

✓ Done fixed information template --Jarekt (talk) 18:29, 2 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Faked or not?

I have the strong impression that these two images of the same uploader

are faked or doctored. To me, it looks as if the head/face was photoshopped into an existing image. Opinions? --Túrelio (talk) 14:47, 26 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It is obvious (bad) photo montage. --BokicaK (talk) 15:05, 26 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

apparently deleted already (MartinGugino (talk) 12:36, 3 October 2009 (UTC))Reply[reply]

Template Looping in the Template:Info/Main series of templates

I'm not sure how long this has been around or how widespread it is but I have noticed some template looping. To see it, visit either of the following pages (there may be more, I just checked the Nimitz after spotting it at the Yamato):

and look to the bottom of the information area.. These both use specific info templates, respectively

The looping seems to come from the "aux" part of the templates. {{Info/Main}} is a very complex template. It displays a lot of information, and apparently automatically generates crosslinks and the like to multiple wikis including various languages and the like, but I think the actual work is done in other templates, not sure. It's used to make the ship specfic info templates I show. As you can see, there is no looping AT the ship specific Info page, it works OK, but if you look at usages, you see the template looping detected note. Near as I can tell there is a redirect from ../aux to the main on each of the ship specific aux pages but deleting the redirect didn't fix it, nor did leaving the page there but getting rid of the redirect. If someone can take a look that would be great. This may be endemic? not sure. ++Lar: t/c 17:10, 26 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

First time I heard of this pseudo-namespace "Info:". Is it still being used? The information could be added to Wikipedia and category descriptions instead. -- User:Docu at 19:21, 26 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There's a whole bunch of them (see Special:PrefixIndex/Info:). As far as I can tell the /aux subpages are all redirects to the main page so any calls of the aux pages in {{Info/Main}} are pointless. Given the fact there has been no activity on these pages and their creator isn't active.. perhaps we should just deprecate as they are unmaintained, and replace the Info:s with simpler templates - I don't think all that scripting is necessary.--Nilfanion (talk) 19:35, 26 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Damn, what a mess. That might be the right choice. Multichill (talk) 20:33, 26 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Nod. However I think the idea behind them is nifty... a template that links to other wikis and to other categories as well as giving a blurb seems great. I have done similar things for some photos I've taken or found, for example see Template:Christopher Columbus (whaleback), for example File:Christopher Columbus whaleback Stereoview stern view.jpg and the images that embed it, or images in the category Category:Croton_Dam_(Michigan) such as File:Croton_Dam_Muskegon_River_Dscn1100_cropped.jpg... so if there was a way to fix this Info: thing, and maybe make it less complex and easier to use, without getting rid of it entirely?? that might be goodness... because it does seem nifty. ++Lar: t/c 03:12, 27 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think that Info: should be a real namespace. I mean, just think what people do when they press Special:RandomPage and they see such a Info: namespace. It's just useless for the readers. Also, since the pages are counted as a gallery, this makes it harder for things that rely on namespace things, like the AbuseFilter. --The Evil IP address (talk) 13:04, 27 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think the stuff in the Info: pages is just a template - its designed to be transcluded into galleries/categories - so a namespace isn't really necessary. What Lar has done with his example is right I think.--Nilfanion (talk) 13:17, 27 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I copied the Nimitz Info page into my userspace (I'm going to work with it to simplify/update).--Nilfanion (talk) 13:17, 27 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks Nilf. Please consider trying to retain the template nature of this, so that new info pages can be constructed easily... (the way I did mine is too much work to create new ones, at least if you want the automatic finding of other language pages) but I think moving it into template namespace (from the pseudo namespace "Info:") probably is a good idea, per The Evil IP. ++Lar: t/c 16:23, 27 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Made a much simplified (no subtemplates!) at User:Nilfanion/Info/Redesign. I've put a test use of it here and it can be compared against the original here. I've also replicated the parameters (with one exception) so if a straight replacement was done none of the transclusions would break. Its pretty much ready to go live now. My remaining concerns are that I can't think where to put it and I think it might be better served by two templates: One for the header and one for the box. That would be trivial to do from my work - just split it in two.--Nilfanion (talk) 19:58, 27 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Cool! Thanks for the work on that. Next steps? Try it on one of the current usages? I'll try it on Yamato to see if I ca puzzle it out. To be clear, this would be included in the current Info:Battleship_Yamato ??? Or would be used to replace all the invocations of it? ++Lar: t/c 20:47, 27 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Basically just replace the call to Info/Main (that is {{{Do|Info/Main}}}|N1={{{1| }}}|N2={{{2| }}}|N3={{{3| }}}|N4={{{4| }}}|N5={{{5| }}}|Get={{{Get| }}}|What={{{What| }}} with one to User:Nilfanion/Info/Redesign (which we should move to template-space). The file link will need fixing, and it will moan about the lack of an English description... Basically I designed a straight a replacement for {{Info/Main}} - which is a template to assist in creation of other templates. Therefore just modify the various info pages :)--Nilfanion (talk) 21:08, 27 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That's what I hoped! I will give the one for Yamato a whirl... why don't you move your page to template space now? It should be good to go I think? Thanks again. ++Lar: t/c 21:18, 27 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Moved it to: Template:Info/New. I hate that location (Template:Info and Template:Information are very different things!), but it will do until we can think of a new home for all the Info: space stuff.--Nilfanion (talk) 21:33, 27 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I converted the Yamato usage, seems to work nicely. Thanks! Now to convert all the rest I guess. ++Lar: t/c 18:56, 29 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No problem! Just watch out for the things I did alter, in particular the image coding. [3]--Nilfanion (talk) 21:14, 29 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Check usage error

The check usage tool is returning an error from Italian Wikiquote. All images seem to be affected, I have tried a number of random images [4][5][6]. Anyone have any idea where this should be reported? SpinningSpark 06:05, 1 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There is a bugs and requests link at the top of every CheckUsage page. I guess that would be the place. –Tryphon 06:40, 1 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I had seen that link, but you are required to be a signed up member before you can use it. SpinningSpark 12:15, 3 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Nevermind - it seems to be fixed now. SpinningSpark 12:17, 3 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

More Deutsche Fotothek images!

Hi everyone, another batch of about 18.000 images is going up now. We really need your help to get all these images properly categorized. This process is described here. Multichill (talk) 13:55, 1 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You can watch the fotothek upload here -- 15:56, 1 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The batches are up. The biggest categories to sort out are about Leipzig and Dresden. Multichill (talk) 16:05, 3 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

How should we proceed?

Hi. There seems to be 2 pictures on the same name at File:Jeff Bridges.jpg but maybe the first one was copyrighted. Whatever the case is, we have to do something: either create 2 separate files or delete the first file if copyrighted. --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 11:06, 2 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No, the first file is correct regarding the copyright status, see Category:Alan Light. But I sugest deletion of the file version with a proper reason to prevent later reverts or misunderstandings. --Martin H. (talk) 11:30, 2 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Better idea: I will separate the files. Temporary deletion, restoring off all versions untill the correct identification and moving them to File:Beau Bridges at 1993 Emmys-cropped.jpg. Then restoration of the newly uploaded Jeff Bridges photo. --Martin H. (talk) 11:35, 2 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
✓ Done, the images are now separated with all its history. --Martin H. (talk) 11:42, 2 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks. I actually didn't realize it wasn't Jeff but Beau on one of the 2 pictures ! --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 08:35, 3 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

SVG not re-rendering

I've updated a new image, but the png renderer doesn't re-render it. This has happened several times now. --Beao (talk) 22:46, 2 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Hi. I have a doubt. I've just uploaded this picture from Flickr but I was wondering about the copyright problems about such a picture. The licence of the photo is fine but what about the costumes people are wearing? --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 08:37, 3 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Aren't logos supposed to be copyrighted?

That's what I wondered when I saw that we had a logo of Pixar. --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 09:32, 3 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There is no specific copyright protection for logos. Logos are protected by trademark restrictions. If they are "artistic", of a creative design, they are additionally protected by copyright, which also expires normally. If they are very simple, there is no copyright protection. Sv1xv (talk) 09:35, 3 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
See COM:CB#Trademarks. Lots more examples in Category:Logos. --Teratornis (talk) 09:43, 3 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Non-routine bot request

I know where to go to request moving categories and universally replacing an image (User talk:CommonsDelinker/commands, for anyone who didn't already know), but where do we go to make a less routine request? For example, I'd hope a bot could be of some help in creating a category corresponding to Rote Flora, and removing the then-redundant supercategories from the images. Or do we have to do something like that entirely by hand? - Jmabel ! talk 17:09, 3 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Commons:Bots/Work requests would be of use.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 17:17, 3 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]


rsvg-view link doesn't work and I can't find it trough any search engine. --Beao (talk) 23:54, 2 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Here's the archived version. Anyway, that's just a web version of the standard man page that ships with the program: assuming you have rsvg installed on your computer, you should get the same page by typing the command man rsvg-view. Also, you can Google for man rsvg-view to find other versions of the manual page. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 20:48, 3 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

October 3

Image from Flickr

Hi, i don't know all rules about transfering images from flickr to commons, but can anyone tell me if this image can be moved to commons: It is licenced under this licence. --SveroH (talk) 10:21, 3 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No it can't. See COM:FLICKR and COM:L#Acceptable licenses. –Tryphon 10:27, 3 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The best think to do if you want to move a picture from Flickr to Commons is using the Flickr upload bot through its web interface. If you write the link, the bot will tell you if it can be moved or not, and if it can it will be very useful and quick to upload it on Commons (apart if you want to upload a cropped version of a picture you found on Flickr, which is not possible with the bot..) --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 13:18, 3 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ok, thanks --SveroH (talk) 16:31, 3 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Another piece of advice: if you're looking for some keywords with the advance search tool, select all 3 lines in the Creative Commons section at the bottom. Then you'll be sure that everything's found with your search will be compatible with Wikimedia Commons (well, except for stuff for which people claim they're the author when they're not but that's another story!) --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 16:53, 3 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've uploaded this image from flickr. i searched under advance search. so, can you tell me if image is ok, thank you. --SveroH (talk) 20:06, 3 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Regretably not. The image is freely licensed on Flickr but the Flickr licensor is not the copyright holder. Only the copyright holder can provide a free licensing, see COM:FLICKR#Questionable_Flickr_image. Also the Flickr uploader Kalumba2009 is listed at Commons:Questionable Flickr images. --Martin H. (talk) 20:25, 3 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ok, i'll be more carefull next time --SveroH (talk) 20:32, 3 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Italian lake prefix

We have some categories which have instead of "Lake XX", "Lago di" is this the correct naming style?--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 20:56, 3 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Why is your username not in English? -- User:Docu at 21:43, 3 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'd say that's the proper naming style, since "Lago di" is not a prefix, but part of the proper noun of the lake. What follows "Lago di" is often the name of a village/locality/municipality, so the proper noun of the lake includes "Lago di" (roughly: "Lake of") to differentiate. Rarely, an italian lake has a proper noun which does not include "Lago di" (lake Trasimeno, for example, but that's the only one that comes to mind), and in that case a category named "Lake Trasimeno" would make sense because "Lago" (note: without "di", which translates to "of") is really just a prefix in that case. On the opposite, a category named "Lake Garda" would make little sense, because "Garda" alone is the proper noun of the municipality/village of Garda. The same thing happens also for italian castles, towers, palaces and villas (where "Castello/Castel", "Torre", "Palazzo" and "Villa" is part of the proper noun (and what follows is often the name of a locality or family). -- IANEZZ  (talk) 22:08, 3 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
A look via catscan on en.wikipedia w:en:Category:Lakes of Italy by region shows a large majority for Lago, some Lakes and in South Tyrol even some Seen (der See - pl. die Seen; German term for lake). --Martin H. (talk) 22:44, 3 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Well the thing is that most of these are stubs and may not follow the naming conventions.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 23:07, 3 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I agree with Ianezz. Constructions like Category:Lake Maggiore and Category:Lake Como are abominations. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 08:56, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I agree with Pieter Kuiper. MartinD (talk) 15:56, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Categories vs. pages?

Can somebody point me to info about when it's best to make a page with a gallery (e.g., Ward Cunningham), vs. when it's best to just put things in a category? Thanks! -Peteforsyth (talk) 23:47, 3 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Ahh the old Category vs Gallery discussion :-). There is little point having a gallery which just duplicates the category, or with very few images. A gallery can be selective, ordered and structured, whereas a category just shows you everything (usually unordered), including redundant, poor quality, and superseded versions which are not the images most sought after. So you might group photos of a bird into male, female, young, nesting, feeding etc.
You also do not need to have a one-to-one relationship between galleries and categories. ie You might have a gallery that includes a few good images from a number of related categories (eg separate sections for different sub-species) so that people don't have to search through many sub-categories (eg to find a good example of a species when the exact sub-species isn't important). See Commons:Galleries --Tony Wills (talk) 06:05, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

October 4

Unassessed QI candidates

The category Unassessed QI candidates contains images which were nominated for QI, but for whatever reason never got any reviews (either promote or decline) within an 8 day period. This seems like a bit of a limbo-land. Shouldn't there be some kind of process by which these can be assessed? Or is the expectation that they remain in limbo? Or is it permissable to resubmit them to the normal process? 99of9 (talk) 08:41, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Generally it means that the image wasn't interesting enough for anyone to assess it. But they can indeed be re-submitted, if one is ignored for a second time, then I would take it as a big hint :-) --Tony Wills (talk) 09:02, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Global warning bot.

Recently I had a discussion about posting a warning on relevant article's talk page (on other projects) of images which we are deleting here and/or informing users who might be interested in solving commons' images copyright problems.
User:Paradoctor suggested that we can use a global bot/tool which uses the output of "CheckUsage" to alert file users in other projects. for example it can post a warning on relevant article's talk page.
I think it is a good idea and pretty necessary for us.   ■ MMXXtalk  04:25, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I initially read that as "Global warming bot", and my imagination went for a wander ... :-). But sounds like a good idea, might save people a lot of trouble if they find out early that there is a problem rather than waiting until the image disappears. Apart from notifying article talk pages, which users would you notify? I suppose people who have it on their user pages, what about people who have it on their watchlist (even if possible would that invoke privacy issues?) - maybe those who have edited its description page?--Tony Wills (talk) 05:46, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ha! I made the same mistake, couldn't believe my eyes... -- JovanCormac 07:29, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Symbol support vote.svg Support Yea sure great idea. This would alert users who have the articles on their watchlist where they could participate in the discussion of the deletion. This has been one of the issues of users not participating in commons (Images get deleted without proper notice...).--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 20:51, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
What about images used in a transcluded template. I think CheckUsage reports one use for every page where the template is transcluded, which would create a huge mess if the template is widely used.
In my opinion, it would be enough to warn the uploader on each project where the image is in use. That should take care of drop-by users, who only contribute to Commons when they need an image on their home project, and never return to check their user page. Those are the most likely to miss a DR or nsd/npd tag, while they could actually do something about it. Putting a warning on the article talk page would surely warn a lot of people, but if a permission is missing, what can they do about it?
But of course, the easiest solution would be to strongly encourage users to activate email notification (or make it the default). –Tryphon 21:33, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Adding template detection to CheckUsage shouldn't be too hard, methinks. Missing permissions may be obtained by asking for them. The point of a warning bot would be to inform interested parties who have not explicitly expressed their interest. I'm primarily thinking of images used in articles. In this case, uploader, linker and article editors might be three different user groups, with the latter being the one standing to profit most from such a bot, and they're the ones for which email notification is not feasible. Sure, undeletion is usually an option, but a warning might save everyone some work. And that is, after all, the idea behind using silicon slaves. ;) Paradoctor (talk) 12:24, 5 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Bad category name

Seems to me that this category is not optimally named. Can somebody rename this category, please. --A.Hakansson (talk) 17:39, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

What do you think it should be named instead? -mattbuck (Talk) 18:37, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Category:People in swimming pools? / 15:34, 5 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sounds about right. I did the move. Wknight94 talk 15:41, 5 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you, Wknight94! I am quite shocked that an administrator as mattbuck is, did not know that category names on Commons MUST be in plural form ([7])!--A.Hakansson (talk) 15:54, 5 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
"People" is a plural noun, hence, Category:People in a swimming pool is plural. Category:Animals by country is analogous. Category:Animals by countries does not exist. Category:People in swimming pools applies to images showing more than one swimming pool containing people. Walter Siegmund (talk) 16:45, 5 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That's not really analogous. "People in a swimming pool" sounds like a bunch of people in one swimming pool. People by country means people grouped by their country. "People in a swimming pool" would be analogous to "People in a country". It would be confusing at best. Which country? Any country? I would change that one to "People in countries". Wknight94 talk 17:07, 5 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm just saying that when asking for a category to be renamed, it's helpful if you say what you think it should be named instead. I personally think People in a Swimming Pool should be the name of a band. -mattbuck (Talk) 17:10, 5 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Well if anyone's looking for less than optimally named categories with people, Category:People in shower is a candidate for pluralization. Man vyi (talk) 18:09, 5 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That one's done now too. By the way, we have COM:DL for obvious renames like these. Wknight94 talk 19:00, 5 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Flickr again

sorry to bother you all again, but i want to upload this image from flickr to commons. it is licenced under free licence and uploader is not on list of Questionable Flickr uploaders. --SveroH (talk) 18:44, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • This seems to be a legitimate upload. The user seems to have many valuable images. Please do a batch upload request and Commons:Batch uploading so we could import his various images to Commons.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 20:31, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    • You may do a batch upload request, of course, but you can also transfer only this image - it is ok. --Martin H. (talk) 21:10, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • ok, i submited batch upload request here. this is my first time to do a batch upload request, so please tell if it is ok, thank you --SveroH (talk) 13:44, 5 October 2009 (UTC)--SveroH (talk) 13:44, 5 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    • I've found anoher uploader that i think it's ok. he has uploaded few whitney houston's photos. we have none whitney's photos here on commons. can i upload this few images? author is here (tm 10001) --SveroH (talk) 14:40, 5 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ok, i should that figured out --SveroH (talk) 16:14, 5 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Picasa - Trusted Users

I think we should update the trusted users, there is more place to look for images, for example Picasa, the license it is the same as in Flickr. And I'm sure a person who is empowered to check the Flickr is able to assess in Picasa. Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton (talk) 21:26, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

October 5

File:Ponte delle Catene (Fornoli).JPG

When I uploaded a new, cropped version of File:Ponte delle Catene (Fornoli).JPG, the thumbnails, in any size, show up in the aspect ratgio of the cropped version, but show a vertically compressed version of the original image rather than the cropped version. Does anyone know why and how to fix it? -- H005 Sexy Mouth transparent.png 16:39, 5 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I purged it; seems okay now. –Tryphon 16:43, 5 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Merci beaucoup ! -- H005 Sexy Mouth transparent.png 18:20, 5 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Move Info:Hospital ships to category namespace?

Info:Hospital ships is currently used in

  1. Category:Hospital ships (transclusion) (← links)
  2. File:Britannic hospital.jpg (transclusion) (← links)
  3. File:Vaisseau Duguay-Trouin-École d'application des Aspirants.JPG (transclusion) (← links)
  4. File:Britannic hospital.jpg (transclusion) (← links)
  5. USNS Mercy (T-AH-19) (transclusion) (← links)
  6. USNS Mercy (T-AH-19) (transclusion) (← links)
  7. USS Mercy (AH-4) (transclusion) (← links)

I'd like to move this to the category description of Category:Hospital ships and remove it from all other uses. The other files/galleries are already in the category "hospital ships" and each description states that it's a hospital ship. -- User:Docu at 10:02, 30 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

See a few threads up, there is a proposal to change the Info: pseudonamespace files to not be there any more. I suggest you convert Info:Hospital ships to a template as I did for Yamato (and will do for others when I hvae time) per the good work Nilf did... then make the decision about whether to include it from JUST the category or from all the images. Personally I prefer the latter, but it needs conversion, not copypasta. Moving the content to the category would be something I would oppose. ++Lar: t/c 21:27, 30 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Can you address the question if this specific text is needed anywhere else than in the category description? We all know about the template namespace being for templates. -- User:Docu at 21:35, 30 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think you missed the point of why I mentioned the conversion. But to your question, well, most of the other uses of Info: pseudo namespace pages I've seen applied to a single thing (the Yamato, for example) rather than a whole category of things. Still, when I look at, for example File:Britannic hospital.jpg, it strikes me as useful information to have on the file's description page. (It would be even more useful if it didn't have "template loop detected"... which conversion to Nilf's version fixes) I wouldn't be likely to go to that category in search of the additional info unless I knew about it being there already. I can see the argument for not having it, but on balance I think, marginally, weakly, I'd prefer it be kept on the individual files. For uses that apply to a single thing (again, the Yamato as an example) I think the argument for keeping it on every image is far far stronger. If it were relegated to the category (Yamato has its own category) that would be a significant loss of info. ++Lar: t/c 02:35, 1 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(unindent) Personally I think the note on hospital ships is a valuable category description (which is why I suggested moving it into that namespace in the first place).

From a categorization point of view, e.g. USNS Mercy (T-AH-19) shouldn't be in Category:Hospital ships as Category:USNS Mercy (T-AH-19) is already in Category:United States Navy hospital ships (itself a subcategory of Category:Hospital ships.

To summarize your point of view, you would suggest making such category descriptions into templates and adding these to all images in their sub-categories? -- User:Docu at 08:18, 1 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Weakly. (for categories that "include multiple physical things" like hospital ships) More strongly for categories that are about just one thing (like a single ship). Although I didn't use an Info: sort of thingie take a look at File:Christopher Columbus whaleback Sprague painting.jpg which is in category SS Christopher Columbus... I put the same informative template invocation in both the images and the category. Not everyone knows to go look at categories. ++Lar: t/c 17:11, 1 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think I must object to your counter-proposal. It isn't consistent with the current way categorization is being done. Besides, you don't seem to be too convinced of it yourself. -- User:Docu at 11:38, 3 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Not everyone knows to go look at categories. I certainly would not REQUIRE that informative templates be placed on every image, but I wouldn't waste effort removing them in order to have them solely at the category level. Again, I think my SS Chris images came out pretty nicely, the template invocation is right in the {{Information}} box. ++Lar: t/c 19:18, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You might want to start another thread if you are interested in feedback on that other Info page and its uses. -- User:Docu at 19:36, 5 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Policies navbox

Hi, sorry if this is not the appropriate forum to post this, but I am hoping to solicit some discussion at Commons talk:Policies and guidelines regarding my proposed addition of a navbox to the policy and guideline pages. Cheers, DoktorMandrake 09:23, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

For information, this is the template being discussed:
DoktorMandrake 13:48, 5 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Excellent! At last. Finding out what's allowed on Commons and what's not is still way too hard. -- JovanCormac 09:56, 6 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Maybe also a line related to bots? It's really hard initially to learn how to make a request for a bot to do a task. Nothing on the Community portal. - Jmabel ! talk 17:10, 6 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Why no thumb for GIF?

Why thumbnail image does not be produced for the GIF format file? --百楽兎 (talk) 05:52, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You probably just need to purge the cache if something has gone wrong with the thumbnail. You can add a "Purge" gadget on each image's page by turning on the option "Thumbnail Purger" under "Gadgets" in user Preferences. --Tony Wills (talk) 06:16, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Schild Hochspannung.gif
I means another problem. For example, I made a thumb of File:Fire .gif with 64px width as the right image. Now please save the right image to your PC and see what its dimension is. You will find that it is the same as the original source, not a thumb generated by server. The thumb of Other formats is not like this. For example, this thumb of PNG format: ElectricDanger.png--百楽兎 (talk) 08:45, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think the problem was that animated GIF images did not scale properly, so the server delivers all gif images at their full size and lets the browser scale it. --Tony Wills (talk) 08:56, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oh! So the Purge thing at the top of an image file page is only purging the thumbnail from the cache? I've always wondered what that was, while not daring to test it in case it would erase that page. I know that would be highly unlikely though. Johan G (talk) 13:13, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

So this problem will not be fixed in the future? --百楽兎 (talk) 14:11, 7 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Image File:Luna 3 wide angle.png not NASA PD?

The Image File:Luna 3 wide angle.png from the Soviet Luna 3 spacecraft is currently tagged as NASA-PD. The NASA-PD template includes the warning that "The NASA website hosts a large number of images from the Soviet/Russian space agency, and other non-American space agencies. These are not necessarily in the public domain". I am quite sure that the NASA-PD template is not valid for this image (the template says that "this file is in the public domain because it was created by NASA", but this is obviously not a NASA image), and one may rise the question if that image is in PD at all. Any comments? --Vesta (talk) 08:13, 7 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I don't think so, since term of copyrights protection in Russia (USSR legal successor) is 70 years. There are no special exemptions in Russia's copyrights law for this kind of images. --EugeneZelenko (talk) 14:44, 7 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

CC Copyright-Only Dedication (PD US)

Which license template should I choose for that at Commons?

-- 13:45, 7 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This one: {{Cc-pd}}. The full list of Creative Commons license tags is in Category:CC license tags. –Tryphon 14:02, 7 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

October 8


I think its a pretty clear consensus the bug is placed as 21059 Huib talk 17:25, 8 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

MOTD 10-09 is deleted!

MOTD 10-09 is now deleted. What should we do for October 9th media? Kwj2772 (msg) 12:22, 7 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

9 October is the birthday of Camille Saint-Saëns, so how about File:Camille Saint-Saëns - The Carnival of the Animals.ogg? Man vyi (talk) 14:51, 7 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
OK. I changed. Thank you for your suggestion! Kwj2772 (msg) 11:26, 8 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Images of peta

Are all peta images generally in the public domain or must there be a certain permission of peta to publish an image under a PD-licence? Example here (without OTRS) and here (with OTRS). Michael, 12:49, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

The OTRS email contains an email from PETA that states all their own works are "not copyrighted and may be redistributed freely", but their copyright policy does not say the same thing. In all fairness, the email was from 2007, so there's a possibility that they changed their copyright policy. I'm not sure how to handle this one. Killiondude (talk) 00:58, 8 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Sandhill crane poster

I would like to get my son (lives in Las Vegas) some posters of sandhill cranes. Can you help? I don't understand how to use Wikimedia Commons or any part of this website. Is this the correct place to ask this questions?

I liked the cranes with the baby walking, and others.



Well, you could look through the images in Category:Grus canadensis, and if you find one you like that will print nicely at a large size, download a copy and send it to Kinkos or any other print shop. Otherwise, you could Google for "sandhill crane poster" which finds pages of links. --Teratornis (talk) 07:09, 8 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

How does a professional athlete/trainer get his bio put up & protected on here. I am working with an MMA trainer and would like to get his information listed. His name is already connected with many MMA/UFC names listed in the bios, but of course without a link to his own bio.

Who does the bios?

How do we get a bio up?

Can I enter the info?

How do we protect it so others cannot mess with the information (perfect example BJ Penns Bio is semi-protected)?

Do I need special programs to upload files/create the bio?

How can I make sure only I and authorized people EDIT the bio?

Help for name of new category

Hi. I wanted to create a new category within the sex categories dedicated to illustrations showing the sexual penetration of an object (but not only dildos, which may be a sub-category), as in this picture. Do you have an idea of the best way to name this new cat? --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 15:51, 8 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

In blissful ignorance of COM:Cat, I suggest "Penetrative use of sex toys". And a big "thank you" for raising this topic. It crowned an already pretty good day with a big smile. ;) Paradoctor (talk) 17:47, 8 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Commons:Language policy

Hi, in an effort to move the Commons:Language policy closer to completion, I have been editing it and cleaning it up for the last few days. I have tried to make the page as neutral and consistent as possible with the relevant policy and guidleine pages that it cross references.

I would appreciate it if you could look at Commons talk:Language policy and contribute your thoughts. This is the version that exists as I am writing it and I am encouraging everyone to consider the "static" page until everything gets sorted out.

Many thanks. Evrik (talk) 17:16, 8 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

PotY 2007 about to be deleted

Picture of the Year 2007 is about to be deleted according to Commons:Deletion requests/Images of Grande Arche. The picture represents the Grande Arche de la Défense, a major 20th century building in the Paris vicinity, designed by an architect who died in 1987. As France does not recognize freedom of panorama, the picture was DR'ed a first time in January 2008 and kept on De minimis grounds. However, I decided to close this new DR with 'delete' because people who voted 'keep' were probably not aware that a French court had forbidden non-authorized postcards representing the Grande Arche "in a panorama of which it was the main feature, or at least an important feature" (TGI Paris 12th July 1990). The Grande Arche may not be the main feature in this picture, but it sure is an important one. Also, you can represent the fountain *without* the Grande Arche. You just have to face the other way.

Anyway, I'm mentioning this here, on the Village Pump, so that people from Wikipedias allowing Fair Use may move PotY 2007 locally. Jastrow (Λέγετε) 18:47, 8 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Picture of the Year 2007 was File:Broadway tower edit.jpg. The image in that deletion request was not even one of the finalists. It was a candidate in the POTY2007 vote just as all other featured pictures from 2007. /Ö 19:05, 8 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Enable patroller permissions

File:Badge of the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom.svg

This cannot possibly be licensed under Creative Commons. It is the logo/crest/emblem/whatever of the UK's Supreme Court, as granted by the College of Arms. Delete, please, especially since there is a properly-licenced-and-used version locally on ENwiki. Thanks. 21:07, 2 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yeah, it's copyrighted: w:File:Supreme_court_crest_(official).svg and I have requested deletion.
Why can't it be licensed under Creative Commons? Is it not an original work of art created per the blason? The College of Arms grants the blason, but each interpretation of that blason is, is it not, an original expression of that idea and therefore attracts copyright in its own right? Of course, UK law may restrict the usage of heraldry by bodies other than that authorised to bear arms - but that is a non-copyright question, surely? Man vyi (talk) 21:35, 2 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm not a fan of copyright, but crown copyright works that way. And no, it does not qualify as original expression. --Beao (talk) 21:42, 2 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Per Man vyi, of course the rendering can be considered creative work and thus you can put under a license - you may have a lock at File:UK Royal Coat of Arms.svg. The question is not the valid CC license. The question is if the design of the badge is in the public domain in the UK with other {{Insignia}} restrictions. --Martin H. (talk) 21:44, 2 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Whoops. --Beao (talk) 21:49, 2 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This is ‘still’ being discussed on the deletion requests page. Therefore, so this same conversation about blazons vis copyright does not get repeated every time a European crest of this type gets created for WC, could a polyglot add something like this guidance to the en: WP and WC. Les blasons et le droit d'auteur The coats and copyright Perhaps it ought to get included in the copyright guidance pages as well. Further, There appears no way to copyright a description of selection of elements and their spacial relationship to each other in the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 as these are abstract ideas. Same apply with the futility of trying to patent abstract ideas. Otherwise someone would have copyrighted any 2D work of art that contains a figure of a woman with a child etc., etc. So it is clearly up to the artist to freely express his interpretation of the ‘abstract idea’ incorporated into each blazon.--P.g.champion (talk) 08:57, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There is Commons:Coats of Arms -- could be written better, but is basically correct. Carl Lindberg (talk) 13:33, 9 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

may another user change my picture-pd-license?

Hi, i would like to hear your opinion. I am author of the simple drawing (File:Lichtabsorbtion_eines_buchenblattes.svg). Checking the other day, I recognized, that somebody made a new drawing from it (File:Engelmannscher_Bakterienversuch.svg), with some changes to the piture. He then published the piture under a cc-license. Is this possible? I really would like to maintain the pd license - even though i don't see the uniqui character of the changes, so that a copyright license would be justified!!! I wrote to the user (, but we didn't find a common compromise. What is your opinion? Lanzi (talk) 11:27, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

PD is not actually a license. After you release something into Public Domain anyboby can use your work for any purpose and release any derivative work under any license (the new copyright will only cover new original elements). Ruslik (talk) 11:39, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If you want to ensure that derivative work is also available under a free license, I recommend the {{Cc-by-sa-3.0-de}} license, which also covers any issues related to your moral rights. Sv1xv (talk) 12:04, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The license on the new work only covers the portions authored by the other user -- your image is still PD. Another user cannot claim copyright over your work, only on the additions they make. However, being public domain, you also cannot control the license that another user chooses for *their* works, even if it partly incorporates yours. Moral rights still apply though in most countries, so attribution of your portion should still be maintained. Carl Lindberg (talk) 13:40, 9 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Correct english

Hey guys. I need your help for the correct of english. My question is about the M109 howitzer. Currently we have two categories: M109 howitzers in Israelitic service which is nominated for deletion and M109 howitzers in Israeli service. Which one has the correct gramma?
thanks for your help --D-Kuru (talk) 13:05, 8 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Israeli. "Israelitic" I think more relates to the word "Israelite", not necessarily the modern country of Israel, which seems to be what is desired for those categories. Carl Lindberg (talk) 13:13, 8 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Yes, "Israelite" and "Israelitic" refer to the Biblical Israel. -Nard the Bard 13:23, 8 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
To avoid this type of problems, Commons naming would prefer something like "M109 howitzers used in Israel" or ""M109 howitzers in service in Israel". Moreover, that form is extendable, so one could imagine "M109 howitzers used in Nazareth" and "M109 howitzers used in Nazareth, Belgium" (Category:Nazareth (Belgium)). --Foroa (talk) 13:34, 8 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That would be a slightly different category... they aren't always used in the country where the army comes from (historical battle photos, joint exercises with another country's army somewhere, etc.). Maybe "M109 howitzers of Israel". Carl Lindberg (talk) 13:52, 8 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
OK. M109 howitzers in Israeli service will be kept. Thanks for your help
--D-Kuru (talk) 06:54, 9 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Both the Patroller and Autopatrolled userrights have been activated. Users interested in having such userrights should apply at Commons:Requests for rights‎. Cheers, Tiptoety talk 20:03, 8 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

License for File:IC10 BVHa.jpg valid?

File:IC10 BVHa.jpg

This image is from the Local Group Survey of the Lowell observatory ( There is no indication on the web pages of Lowell Observatory that the images are in the public domain. I doubt that the {{PD-USGov}}-tag applies here, as the Lowell Observatory is a private research institute, no government institution. --Vesta (talk) 12:18, 9 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I would tend to agree. It was produced under an NSF grant, but that usually does not change any copyright ownership. It may have been a mistaken assumption by the original uploader. I would nominate it for deletion. Carl Lindberg (talk) 17:14, 9 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

GPS information template

Do we have a GPS information template? For example for File:Tamiasciurus_douglasii_6021.JPG the information below the information template gives the elevation, the GPS device and location name. This is searchable and produces some problems. Searching for Garmin GPSmap 60CSx gives the images located by the device but not an image of the device. Any solution in mind?--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 14:59, 9 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

What should we do with File redirects?

Should file redirect pages be deleted after commons delinker replacement of all links or should they be kept? Wouldn't a bot that places all file redirect pages in a maintenance category for review by admins be useful? --Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 14:49, 6 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I find them quite anoying and redundant, for example the image in the taxobox here[10] has been moved from Carnotuarus 2.jpg to Epachthosaurus.jpg, but the first file name (which is now a redirect) is still used in the article, but when you click on the image (or with checkusage), you can only see on what pages it is used with the filename Epachthosaurus.jpg, not Carnotuarus 2.jpg, therefore you cannot find everywhere the image is used regardless of name. Delete them all, I say, one of the worst ideas Ive seen on Commons, after one file galleries. FunkMonk (talk) 15:17, 6 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You can click What links here on Epachthosaurus.jpg, find the redirect then click check usage. You'll find where it is used . I think every file redirect should be in a maintance category for admins to check and delete.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 15:30, 6 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete as soon as nothing points towards them anymore. --Eusebius (talk) 15:29, 6 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I disagree. I think we should keep almost all file redirects. Even if all usages have been replaced on Wikimedia projects, the redirect is still useful in two cases: 1. When viewing an old version of an article, with the old name; 2. Outside of Wikimedia, where we have no control on which file name is used. The only case where it's OK to delete a redirect is when an image was moved very shortly after upload, so that there is no way the old name was ever used. Pruneautalk 15:52, 6 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I agree with Pruneau. Redirects should stay if the file was in use somewhere. I think we need a bot placing something like Template:File redirect on all newly created file redirects, files using this template should be checked by a bot for usage in other projects and sorted with a template parameter to Category:File redirects not in use and Category:File redirects in use. We can replace the used redirects with CommonsDelinker A text output with delinker commands for the used redirects would be nice. CommonsDelinker should place his Template:Universally replaced to file redirects where no replacement is possible so we must do this by hand, e.g. galleries on Wikipedias or Images in some Infoboxes are not so easy to replace. --Martin H. (talk) 16:25, 6 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Addition: I just noted, that some wikis are unable to handle file redirects, so the fr.wikipeda with the redirect File:Citation a l'ordre de la division Maurice Dutilleul 73 RI 51 Div.JPG used in this article - I have no problem to include the same text on de.wikipedia but on fr.wikipedia the file is not shown up. --Martin H. (talk) 16:36, 6 October 2009 (UTC) Only temporary. --Martin H. (talk) 23:12, 6 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

So the only purpose of the redirects is to have them show up in older revisions? Isn't that too little and too late? FunkMonk (talk) 17:15, 6 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Older revisions, external users, bookmarked pages, user upload logs (the page is moved, but not the upload log). Maybe more? --Martin H. (talk) 18:48, 6 October 2009 (UTC)Reply